Curse

Mad King Corn · Jun 16, 2007, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Unsigned, I mean really! Nerf our new skills? Are you high?

These skills should be able to be used by secondary professions.

Please stop this nonsense. If it bothers you that bad just don't play.

This nerf shit is really getting on my nerves, I have half a notion to stop reading these forums, its all depressing nerf crying etc..

ENOUGH!

Tactical-Dillusions · Jun 16, 2007, 02:07 AM // 02:07

I disagree on limiting the skills to primaries only and i gave it alot of forethought.

Other players earned their titles the same as me, and likewise, i can use their skills if i so choose. Swings and roundabouts....

LifeInfusion · Jun 16, 2007, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by pork soldier

I'd like to take this one step further - make all of the sunspear and luxon/kurzick skills elite please.

and it will be like lightbringer signet: plain not used.

pingu666 · Jun 16, 2007, 02:12 AM // 02:12

lightbringer signet sucks tho.

Phantom Gun · Jun 16, 2007, 02:15 AM // 02:15

/Unsigned

You should be able to use both. It doesn't make much sense to not be able to use the new skills for your second proffesion. I mean you can use all of the others, even the primary ones. Why change these? Besides aren't these PVE only skills? It's not like it affects you. Or at least I don't think so.

Oh yeah I agree that this "OMG Nerf teh guy that owned me" mentality is getting very old. At this rate GW future will be like *all skills do 1 dmg*. Ok maybe not but still.....

The Great Al · Jun 16, 2007, 02:21 AM // 02:21

I 100% agree with the OP, mostly because there are some professions that can basically use more skills than the others. For example, dervs and warriors can use the assassin skill, assassins and dervs can use the warrior skill. Hell, a tank with a pet could use the Ranger one. Necros, I think mesmers, and possibly smiting monks (not too familiar with them) could use the elem one. The monk one is tied to divine favor and basically *is* primary profession only. The elementalist basically has no reason to use any skill besides its own.

acidic · Jun 16, 2007, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom Gun

/Unsigned

You should be able to use both. It doesn't make much sense to not be able to use the new skills for your second proffesion. I mean you can use all of the others, even the primary ones. Why change these? Besides aren't these PVE only skills? It's not like it affects you. Or at least I don't think so.

Oh yeah I agree that this "OMG Nerf teh guy that owned me" mentality is getting very old. At this rate GW future will be like *all skills do 1 dmg*. Ok maybe not but still.....

By the same argument people like you would want *all skills do 99999 dmg* and instant kill anything. "OMG Buff ME cuz that creep owned me" and "how dare you even suggest to discuss any changes" mentality is getting old.

Now that was unfair. Arguments like those are irrelevant and does not belong in a thoughtful discussion.

Quote:

Unsigned, I mean really! Nerf our new skills? Are you high?

These skills should be able to be used by secondary professions.

Please stop this nonsense. If it bothers you that bad just don't play.

This nerf shit is really getting on my nerves, I have half a notion to stop reading these forums, its all depressing nerf crying etc..

ENOUGH!

Lets make a game that caters only towards you, if it bother anyone else it doesn't matter. Lets buff everything you have and let other players either make the same characters and the same builds that you make or they can quit the game.

Is it depressing because other players want to argue for their point of view? Maybe you should go live in a bubble.

After thinking about it a bit and playing with the new skills on my characters, I have reached a new conclusion: Primary and secondary should be allowed to use these skills, but only if there is a reduced benefit in using one of these new sunspear/faction skills from a secondary. Anet can tie it to a secondary attribute like current skills do, or they can simply put in a hard limit as to the effectiveness of a sunspear skill from a secondary class. In the first case, the secondary sunspear skill should be AS effective as a primary IF they invest in that particular attribute line (Not including runes). This is a sacrificial cost that all current skills from a secondary class must go through, so why not sunspear skills?

Look for example at the current Warrior/Monk. You have some benefit of self healing, but its never as good in healing as a primary monk. This is the point some people are arguing. The current sunspear skills have no distinguishment on secondary and primary, so a Warrior/Mo can have a sunspear skill just as effective as a Primary Monk.

Anet has stated that they want some of the underplayed classess to be more accepted in PvE. Well If there is no difference in the effectiveness between a primary and a secondary, the underplayed class still will not be accepted in any meaningful way.

So it comes down that Anet have three choices,
1). Restrict to primary profession
2). Tie the skills to an attribute
3). Hard limit the effectiveness of sunspear skill from a secondary

1&3 are hard and easy to implement, but #2 is elegant and could lead to more variety.

Mad King Corn · Jun 16, 2007, 03:02 AM // 03:02

It don't friggin matter if secondary profession can use these skills people...THESE ARE PVE ONLY!

They don't affect other people AT ALL!

Simply don't use them by your secondary profession if you feel that elite.

Some of us really appreciate the fact that we have these new skills and also appreciate the fact that we can use them by our secondary professions. I am grateful that anet allowed us the ability to use the secondary ones as well. I play alot in advanced areas of the game and PVP'ers have ruined the rest of our good skills so lets not ruin these since PVP is totally unaffected by these. I dislike having inferior skills to level 30 monsters with super high armor etc, these are just what the doctor ordered.

nightwatchman · Jun 16, 2007, 03:11 AM // 03:11

/unsigned

I firmly believe all skills should be learnable by all professions. But maybe link them to the primary attribute somehow so that primaries get a benefit

xshadowwolfx · Jun 16, 2007, 03:12 AM // 03:12

/signed

Allowing these skills on the primaries only makes sense.

Ravi · Jun 16, 2007, 03:18 AM // 03:18

lol sure thing , how about remove sub classes altogether? i mean i can still make an e/me with load of counters and hexes, and u can do a me/e that FS nukes things.... the things ppl demand sometimes are amazing really

acidic · Jun 16, 2007, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad King Corn

It don't friggin matter if secondary profession can use these skills people...THESE ARE PVE ONLY!

They don't affect other people AT ALL!

Simply don't use them by your secondary profession if you feel that elite.

Some of us really appreciate the fact that we have these new skills and also appreciate the fact that we can use them by our secondary professions. I am grateful that anet allowed us the ability to use the secondary ones as well. I play alot in advanced areas of the game and PVP'ers have ruined the rest of our good skills so lets not ruin these since PVP is totally unaffected by these. I dislike having inferior skills to level 30 monsters with super high armor etc, these are just what the doctor ordered.

It affects people whose primary profession is being immensely overshadowed by other professions because a supposed skill for this profession works JUST AS WELL on a different profession WITHOUT INVESTING in any attributes.

Anet stated that there goal was to increase the popularity and acceptance of underplayed classess, without any sort of downside to using a sunspear skill on a secondary they have completetly failed their goal and instead made the popular classess even easier to play with as there is aboslutly no point when you can just tack on the skill that is 100% effective.

Skye Marin · Jun 16, 2007, 03:20 AM // 03:20

I just wish all the skills gave a half-decent amount of cross-profession synergy, at least as much as some.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raynb

I think this is totally unfair, for example:

Why pugs would pick a paragon r10 sunspear, if they can get a monk/paragon r10 sunspear??? Monks will be able to use the same skill, with the same efficiency, and also will be able to normally heal the others!!!

Because, a Paragon r10 sunspear can use both its Sunspear skill, plus the warrior's Luxon skill, which gives +100 armor for 5 seconds with 6 strikes of adreniline.

Raynb · Jun 16, 2007, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad King Corn

It don't friggin matter if secondary profession can use these skills people...THESE ARE PVE ONLY!

They don't affect other people AT ALL!

Simply don't use them by your secondary profession if you feel that elite.

Some of us really appreciate the fact that we have these new skills and also appreciate the fact that we can use them by our secondary professions. I am grateful that anet allowed us the ability to use the secondary ones as well. I play alot in advanced areas of the game and PVP'ers have ruined the rest of our good skills so lets not ruin these since PVP is totally unaffected by these. I dislike having inferior skills to level 30 monsters with super high armor etc, these are just what the doctor ordered.

First of all, I want to say that I really respect all the opinions here, but, I bet that almost everyone that doesn't agree here do not play with a Mesmer and/or a Paragon as the main PVE character.

I'm not saying that everyone that do not agree with me are at the "bad" side or the wrong side of this, but what I was trying to say in this thread is that, this PVE-only skills are one of the biggest hopes of "new and better PVE times" for most of the PVE Mesmers and Paragons, and, after so many hope and expectation, we discovered that this PVE skills that had the possibility to make us more unique and desired in the game, can be used by anyone!!!

Sorry if I was a little bit rude, I just want to make my opinion clear

By the way,I am also hoping that Gaile Gray read this and give some feedback

acidic · Jun 16, 2007, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravi

lol sure thing , how about remove sub classes altogether? i mean i can still make an e/me with load of counters and hexes, and u can do a me/e that FS nukes things.... the things ppl demand sometimes are amazing really

If you been playing this game and have not noticed that a primary profession can do things much better than if it were a secondary profession. Your e/me is not as at things a Me/e can do and vice versa. But these skills makes E/me Just as effective at things a Me/e BUT since Me are despised in PvE, It does nothing to alleviate the memser hate in PvE.

acidic · Jun 16, 2007, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

I just wish all the skills gave a half-decent amount of cross-profession synergy, at least as much as some.

Because, a Paragon r10 sunspear can use both its Sunspear skill, plus the warrior's Luxon skill, which gives +100 armor for 5 seconds with 6 strikes of adreniline.

And a warrior is much more preferred than Paragon in a party, and He can use both those skills. So who wants a paragon again?

Twinsoul · Jun 16, 2007, 03:38 AM // 03:38

As much as I love having access to two of these skills at once, the OP is right. Anet intended these skills to help out less played classes (Mesmer and Paragon) but they won't get any more groups than before if another class can use their skills just as well.

judgedread33 · Jun 16, 2007, 03:57 AM // 03:57

i dont understand why u guys think that the mesmer ss skill will get them into partys its just a conditional cry of frustration with more dmg.

HawkofStorms · Jun 16, 2007, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by acidic

And a warrior is much more preferred than Paragon in a party, and He can use both those skills. So who wants a paragon again?

Because a warrior doesn't have the energy to use the skills. A paragon with leadership for e-management (since both skills are shouts).

HawkofStorms · Jun 16, 2007, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by judgedread33

i dont understand why u guys think that the mesmer ss skill will get them into partys its just a conditional cry of frustration with more dmg.

Sry for the double jost but judgedread's post occured while I was writing my first post. The kurzick/luxon one is nice -5 to -8 degen in an aoe affect.